Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

Today my Pioneer CLD-59 arrived and my LD's arrived a couple weeks ago. So I started doing some simple processing to see how good a job I could do. So far I am not too disappointed. It looks better than the Chinese bootlegs I bought a few years ago of the SE's.

One huge thing I am doing to make a difference is inverse telecine on the video to put it back to 23.97p. The final DVD is going to be progressive. Then, and only after the image has been put back to progressive, am I doing the anamorphic stretch to 16x9. I'm also upping the contrast a fair amount and the brightness just a nudge to try to match the SE's PQ.

I've attached a screen capture. I don't think it looks too bad. What do you think? Obviously a film transfer would be better, but unless someone has an old print I'm out of luck.

Haven't played with the audio yet. I'm trying to figure out if I record the audio digitally and then encode it to Dolby Digital 2.0 with the surround flag set if that will work.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

And another

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Registered: May 2001
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 7716

Peter, a shame you don't have a CLD-97 or LDX9, as you'd get even better results. I am very curious about how you progress. I have a CLD-97 and have no intention of buying the so called SE DVD's. I HATE the changes made to the films.

Advice on the audio, keep it PCM. Going 2.0 will result in a huge loss in quality. The PCM soundtracks of the laserdiscs are astonishingly good, especially in ProLogic II mode. Split the films over multi-DVD's if you have to in order to keep the PCM sound in-tact.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

Two things:

1) You want to let me borrow the CLD-97? I'll give a security deposit. I couldn't find one on ebay for a reasonable price. Actually as I recall I couldn't find one at all. Something was $500 but I don't even know if it was the right one.

2) I may keep at PCM, but my question is how to enable Pro Logic when you finally view? I can't seem to find a way to tell my receiver that there's pro-logic in the PCM signal. What's wrong with DD at a high bitrate (like 384k)?

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Registered: Apr 2000
Location: Plainfield, New Hampshire
Posts: 2625

Dolby Digital is compressed while the PCM track is not. Also, you lose in the conversion.

You should read the manual for your receiver. Playing back PCM in pro-logic should be easy.

I have the "faces" LD's of the "mostly" un-altered trilogy. I would be interested in DVD's made from these but... I don't have a good way of doing it. My attempts have not come out so good.

(I'll certainly buy the new SE DVD's, despite prefering the old versions.)

=Brian

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

I wish I could sell or even give away my results. But I'll be sued.

I know DD is compressed. But I've been listening to the PCM version and I have to say it's not the best digital sound I've ever heard. I find it unlikely DD will be a huge loss. You must know what you're doing with settings - a lot of encoders default to volume dynamic compression. This is bad! It accounts for probably 50% of the times when people think a DD encoding doesn't sound good.

Are there any DTS software encoders?

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Registered: May 2001
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 7716

Having heard the STAR WARS Pro Logic tracks compressed to 384k DD, I can tell you that it is inferior on good sound systems. The sound is harsher and loses something at the top and bottom ranges.

What state do you live in, Peter? I'll never, ever put my CLD-97 into a box for shipping, but I'd be willing to allow it to be driven directly to someone's home. PM me.

Hey, if you are too far away from CT, maybe someone in your area has a CLD-97, CLD-99, or X9, all of which would give you a superior image with less smearing vs your CLD-59 (which is a decent player).

By the way, if you have larger screen grabs, I can put them on my website.

Also, don't stretch the image to 16X9. You should get better results with the zoom function of an RP91, Malata or other similarly equipped DVD player.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

Matt, I'll make some larger screen grabs (full 720x360), and PM them to you. I'm busy doing tech for a live show next week, but after that I'll have more time to work on this pet project.

As for stretching, let me play around with things and try. I don't see why in theory a good NLE program like Vegas would not do a better job than an on-the-fly stretcher in a DVD player. Doing the inverse telecine first before stretching makes a world of difference.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Berlin, CT
Posts: 198

Or you could just watch them on your Elite LD player like I do.

But - if you want to copy to DVD for preservation, you should use the CAV Definitive Collection discs, not the faces discs.

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Registered: Aug 2002
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 1239

quote:

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Originally posted by peter0302
...
Are there any DTS software encoders?

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Registered: May 2001
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 7716

dertah, yes, the CAV boxed set (NOT the SE boxed set) is the best way to go. I have it and it smears less than the CLD Face LD's.

It is technically possible to take the LD's signal and improve it for a DVD backup, but it would take good hardware/software, plus a lot of hard work.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

You mean the THX original edition Face Disks are NOT the way to go?? I should have gotten the older ones? Everyone was saying to get the face disks!

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

"but it would take good hardware/software, plus a lot of hard work."

Which is what we have and are doing.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 7716

You go, boy! Ain't us geeks grand?

The THX FACE LD's have the sme transfers as the original CAV boxed set. CAV has less smearing vs. CLV, so they have an edge in picture quality.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Berlin, CT
Posts: 198

As it was once explained to me - a CAV LD has one frame recorded per spin of the disc and thus only has 30 minutes per side. A CLV disc is "extended play" and has 60 minutes per side.

The picture quality from CAV discs is very superior to CLV discs. The only Star Wars CAV discs ever made are the ones in "The Definitive Collection" box set. This set sold for $250.00 new and included a hardcover book about Lucas. You can find these sets on eBay fairly regularly. Look at these auction numbers to see pictures of the set: 3394812985, 3395221685.

Be warned, many people have reported that this edition was prone to laser rot (sparklies). Mine look great, but I have heard stories.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

Thanks for that info. Sad thing is I could have gotten the CAV disks for the same price as I got the CLV disks for.

Dertah - the audio quality would be the same between them right? 44.1khz uncompressed PCM is uncompressed PCM.

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Registered: May 2002
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[The picture quality from CAV discs is very superior to CLV discs.

If you do any reading on the CAV vs CLV thing, you will find that this opinion is in the minority. The majority opinion is that the difference, if any, is very small. I would think that if there is any picture advantage to CAV, it would be more than offset by having so many more side breaks to stitch together.

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Registered: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 1851

Well don't worry about stitching together the breaks. I'm very experienced with editing. I'm converting everything to 24p first and then splicing. I just hope they don't do a lot of fade outs at the break points because then I'll have to get creative. Even if the difference is small, Matt's player is much better than mine anyway, so that alone will make a difference.

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Registered: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dertah
The picture quality from CAV discs is very superior to CLV discs.

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Registered: May 2001
Location: Skoghall, va, Sweden
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quote:

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Originally posted by peter0302

I know DD is compressed. But I've been listening to the PCM version and I have to say it's not the best digital sound I've ever heard. I find it unlikely DD will be a huge loss. You must know what you're doing with settings - a lot of encoders default to volume dynamic compression. This is bad! It accounts for probably 50% of the times when people think a DD encoding doesn't sound good.

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